Dec 15

Questions: I have heard that you believe that when a Christian sins, they are now lost from God and need to be born again, again. Is this true?

Answer: Yes, I would hold when a Christian commits a willful sin then they are not longer saved.

The scriptures that I would use to support this would be, “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him” (1Joh 3:15), “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?” (1Joh 4:20), and “He that committeth sin is of the devil” (1Joh 3:8).

You can read my article on Sin is Not an Option for the Christian, Committing Sin Brings Spiritual Death, Biblical Definition of Sin, and Sinning and the Greek Present Tense. These will give you a better understanding of what I hold the New Testament teaches concerning what happens when a Christian sins.

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20 Responses to “Q&A: Do Christians Lose Salvation When They Sin?”

  1. 1. Jake Siemens Says:

    “The scriptures that I would use to support this would be “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him” (1Joh 3:15),”

    I believe what John is doing in the book of John over and over again is He is showing us who is a Christain and who is not a Christian. A Christian ( one that has eternal life) loves his brother. And you know that one that hates His brother is not a Christian ( does not have eternal life abiding in Him) He also says one that loves the world does not have the love of the father in Him, ( is not a Christian)
    He is not saying that when a Christian hates His brother he will lose His eternal life. He is rather making an observation of what a saved man looks like and what an unsaved man looks like. One that hates His brother is not a Christian, wheras one that loves His brother is. He goes on to say : 1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    If this verse be true than that would mean that a Christian would not be able to sin because a Christian cannot sin because God’s seed remaineth in Him. This is a strong verse for perseverance of the saints and also 1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    One that lives in sin has not seen God nor known Him ( past tense). That means that anyone that says they know God but are living in sin were never Christians to begin with. That teaches that if a professing Christian were to go back into sin that would only show that he never knew God. Idon’t know what else you can get from that verse.

  2. 2. Bob Mutch Says:

    Hi Jake;
    It appears to me that you hold that a person can’t loose their salvation as you note that “anyone that says they know God but are living in sin were never Christians to begin with” and “if a professing Christian were to go back into sin that would only show that he never knew God”.

    I suggest you review my article Considering Eternal Security & The IF Scriptures.

    Concerning 1Joh 3:6 or 1Joh 3:9 neither of them says “living in sin”. 1Joh 3:6 says “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:” and 1Joh 3:9 states “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;”.

    I don’t think you can justify translating it living in sin just because the Greek verb or participle is in the present tense. I suggest you read my article on Sinning And The Greek Present Tense where I maintain if you are going to translate the Greek verb or participle in scriptures like 1Joh 3:6, 9 using continuous you must also add continuous scriptures like 1Joh 2:29 where the Greek participle is in the present tense. This will give you “every one that continuously doeth righteousness is born of him” (1Joh 2:29 KJV Modified).

    I made the above point on the last thread you commented on and you didn’t address it there either. To have a more meaningful discussion if I state an objection to how you are translating a scripture that you are using as one of your main points, you not only shouldn’t pass over the objection but you shouldn’t go and make that same point again without answering the objection. Also on the same thread you passed over a number of questions. It will also make a more meaningful discussion if you respond to my questions and points. I am doing my best to respond to all your questions and points as I think that makes for a more meaningful discussion.

    Having added continuous to 1Joh 2:29 it now teaches that you much continuously doeth righteousness or you are not born of him. How ever almost all main translates leave out continuous (ASV, KJV, NIV, NKJV, NRSV, RSV, YLT) as that is an issue of interpretation. AMP and NASB are the only main versions that I know of that translates the action to read continuous in the English when the Greek verb or participle is in the present tense.

    If you add continuous to 1Joh 3:6, 9 but you are not willing to add it to scriptures like 1Joh 2:29 you show you are bias and only translating the Greek present tense where it supports your view of the scriptures. When you add it to 1Joh 2:29 it gives the very opposite effect of what it does when you add it to 1Joh 3:6, 9. When added to 1Joh 2:29 if you don’t continuously do righteousness you are not born of him.

    Now if you leave out the continuous addition you have the scriptures teaching “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin” and “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not”. If you refuse to accept 1Joh 3:6, 9 as they are and insist to make the action continuous you then must deal with “every one that continuously doeth righteousness is born of him” (1Joh 2:29 Modified) and you are right back where you started, which is there is no room for intermittent disobedience in the Christian life and those that are intermittent disobedience are not saved or according to the teaching you would hold were never saved.

    Concerning the other points you made concerning 1Joh 3:6, 9 let me just quote Clarke and Wesley to show the common way the Wesleyan-Arminian deal with the points you raised concerning these scriptures.

    1Joh 3:6 Hath not seen him – It is no unusual thing with this apostle, both in his gospel and in his epistles, to put occasionally the past for the present, and the present for the past tense. It is very likely that here he puts, after the manner of the Hebrew, the preterite for the present: He who sins against God doth not see him, neither doth he know him – the eye of his faith is darkened, so that he cannot see him as he formerly did; and he has no longer the experimental knowledge of God as his Father and portion.
    Adam Clarke

    1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God – By living faith, whereby God is continually breathing spiritual life into his soul, and his soul is continually breathing out love and prayer to God, doth not commit sin. For the divine seed of loving faith abideth in him; and, so long as it doth, he cannot sin, because he is born of God – Is inwardly and universally changed.
    John Wesley

  3. 3. Foster Says:

    If a person loses their salvation by willful acts of sin, what of verses such as Hebrews 6:6, which state that should a person fall away, they can not be renewed again to repentance?

    Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    Does this mean that if a Christian sins, and “falls away” that they are from that point eternally damned with no hope for salvation?

  4. 4. Bob Mutch Says:

    Hi Foster,

    The short answer is if a person has not fallen away to the degree that the Spirit of God is able to convict them of their sin they are able to repent. I answered your question in post entitled Impossible To Renew Them Again Unto Repentance.

  5. 5. Ian Says:

    Would one who has fallen away in the sense spoken of Heb 6:6 care?
    How does one know if the Spirit is convicting them?
    If a person does repent, will God reject them?

  6. 6. Bob Mutch Says:

    Hi Ian,

    No I don’t think a person that has fell away from Christ in the sense that Heb 6:6 speaks of would have any care for their soul at all. That would laugh and scoff and call good evil just like the Pharisees did they they said “this fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils” (Mat 12:24).

    The only reason a person would have any concern for there soul is because God is drawing them to himself. If a person had committed sin that God would refuse to pardon God would never draw them to salvation and then refuse them.

    I see Heb 6:6 the same as the “sin unto death” which we are told “I do not say that he shall pray for it” (1Jn 5:16), and the same as the “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” which “shall not be forgiven unto men” (Mat 12:31).

    This is not an act which God refuses to forgive but it is a state that people can get into where they have seared their hearts so much where the Spirit of God can no longer draw them. If they are so hardened that the Spirit can’t draw them then there is no chance of salvation.

    The Pharisees scoffed at Jesus when he did a notable miracle of healing the blind and dumb. They were so blinded and their hearts so seared they could be in the presents of God incarnate, saw him heal a blind and dumb man and laugh and say he is of the devil. No wonder Jesus said they were in a state where there was no forgiveness.

    The teaching that you can commit a sin where you want to be saved but God refuses to save you is false doctrine and is responsible for sending people to hell. I would rather stand before God on the last day and be responsible for telling people that couldn’t get saved that they could get saved then to have told people that could get saved that they couldn’t.

    Some professing Christians get a hold of teachings and it seems they never have sat down and thought things through. It seems they have not asked themselves “what will be the effect on people I teach this to if I am wrong?” Or “what will God say to me on the last day if this teaching is wrong?”

    If people would only think some of these things through we would not have all these unbiblical teachings like Calvinism, Eternal Security, and non-repentance apostate. Oh how people will be cursing Calvinist and Eternal Security teachers in hell for all eternity.

    And oh the blood that will be on these teachers hands for telling people that there was nothing they could do to get saved but wait for God to move on them (hyper-Calvinism) or that if they had a moment of faith when they were six years old they can never be lost (Eternal Security). May God have mercy on all these the teachers of these unbiblical teachings.

    You know the Spirit is convicting you if you feel any concern for your soul at all. Those that feel a concern for their soul should seek God and make steps toward him. Put off all sinning they can, start reading the Bible and praying for mercy, contact all the spiritual people they know and ask them to pray for them. Give up their smoking, drinking, drugging, running around, porn, lying, swearing, ungodly music, television, radio, internet and what ever else is causing them to sin. Get serious, plead for mercy, cry out for help, don’t give up.

    Then God will be moved on this throne and he will do a salvation work!

    Jn 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    Jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

    Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    Tit 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

  7. 7. Ian Says:

    Thank you very much for answering my questions. I just had some more that have been bugging me.

    But why would the Hebrew writer use Esau as an example?
    It’s just so confusing to me. If repentance is a gift from God, and Esau
    repented, God rejected him? That doesn’t make any sense.
    Of course, maybe it was because his repentance was false. Or maybe it means that he couldn’t change his fathers’ mind?

    And what does Hebrews 10:26 mean?

  8. 8. Bob Mutch Says:

    Hi Ian,

    Esau was used as a bad example. He sold his birthright for the fleeting pleasures of the flesh — a bit of food. Esau’s error was that he “despised his birthright” (Gen 25:34) and he stands as a warning to those us today least we “fail of the grace of God” (Heb 12:15) and become a “profane person” (Heb 12:16) as Esau did and despise our spiritual birthright. Their is also a warning here that we beware least we become defiled and due to the deceitfulness of sin find “no place of repentance” (Heb 12:17).

    While in Esau’s case he sought to recover his literal birthright with tears but their was no recovery, in our case we have a promise that if we sin there is forgiveness through Christ (1Jn 2:1). But to us there is also a warning that we must beware least we presume on the grace of God and live in willfuly, known, and open sin thinking we can repent just before we die.

    It is possible to sin away the day of grace and harden and sear our heart’s to the place that the Spirit of God can no longer convict us of our sin. We can become apostate and ever deny the faith we once loved to the point where we are in the condition of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Mat 12:31), or sin unto death (1Jn 5:16), or fallen away (Heb 6:6).

    This is the reason I feel that Esau is used as an example. He lost his earthy birthright, if we go back into sin we can get into a condition where we have lost our heavenly birthright with no change to recover it.

    As far as Hebrews 10:26 I would believe that if you sin willfully your past sins which were forgiven are no longer forgiven. So if you go into willful sin your sins are no longer covered. At the same time I hold the Bible teaches you can repent and have them forgiven again (1Jn 2:1).

  9. 9. Ian Says:

    So one who has “crossed the point of no return” wouldn’t care?

  10. 10. Bob Mutch Says:

    Hi Ian,

    Yes that is correct. If they hardened their heart to such a point where the Spirit of God was unable to draw them to God they would never come or want to come became “no man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him” (Jn 6:44).

    This is the safest position to take on Mat 12:31-32, Heb 6:4-6, Heb 10:26-27, 1Jn 5:16-17.

    I would be rather found on the last day teaching people that can’t come to Christ that they can, that to be found teaching those that can come to Christ that they can’t.

    I hold the same position with Unconditional Election and Eternal Security. On the last day I would rather be found teaching anyone can to come to Christ and to find out that it was only a few that were unconditionally elected before the foundations of the world, then to have taught that it is only a few unconditionally elected people that can come and find out that everyone could have come.

    On the judgment day I would rather be found teaching that you could loose your salvation if you willfully or knowingly sinned and find out that you couldn’t, than to teach that you couldn’t and find out you could.

    I believe that we will be judged on the last day for any spiritual blood we have on our hands. Those that teach unscriptural doctrines that mislead people and cause them to be lost, these teachers will also be lost.

  11. 11. Rebecca Becky Says:

    Hebrews 10:26 says, “For when we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins.” What does this mean?
    ANSWER
    What does the phrase “There no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins” mean? Some may say, “If I sin willfully after I have received the knowledge of the truth, I will not be saved. It is true that God sent His Son to die for me, to bear my sins so that I would be saved through believing in His Son. But if I sin willfully, according to Hebrews 10:26, there is no longer a sacrifice for sin, and I cannot be saved. This is mentioned not only in verse 26 but also in verse 27, which says, `But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries.’ If I sin willfully, I can wait for only two things: one is the judgment, and the other is the fervor of fire which consumes the adversaries. This is hell and perdition. Since according to the Bible if I sin willfully, there remains no longer a sacrifice for sins, the ending for me is judgment and the fervor of fire which consumes the adversaries. Therefore, I cannot be saved.” Those who think in this way think that this passage is for Christians and that if a Christian sins willfully, he cannot be saved. We have to look into this portion of the Word carefully to find out if the ones who sin willfully are Christians or other people. We must also consider the meaning of sinning willfully and see if this refers to sin in general or to some particular sin.

    “When we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth,” the result, according to the Bible, is “a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries.” The people mentioned here are different from those in Hebrews 6:4, “who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift.” The “truth” spoken of in Hebrews 10:26 is the redemption accomplished once for all by the Lord Jesus Christ. There are certain people who know about the death of the Lord Jesus, the shedding of His blood, and the purpose of His body being broken. They know that man can enter into the Holy of Holies through the blood of the Lord Jesus and be accepted by God; they also know that the work of redemption has been completed forever, and the sacrifice has been offered once for all. There no longer remains a sacrifice for sins for this kind of people, who sin willfully after they have known these truths.

    For a moment, let us assume that this portion refers to a Christian who, after receiving the knowledge of the truth and understanding all the doctrines mentioned above, falls into temptation and lies, steals, or goes to places where he should not go. Since he knows that these things are wrong and continues to do them, he sins willfully and cannot be saved. If this is true, I wonder if anyone is saved at all. In Romans 7 Paul said, “For what I will, this I do not practice; but what I hate, this I do….For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice…Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?” (vv. 15, 19, 24). Does this not show that Paul clearly knew that he should do good but did not do good and instead did the things he hated? In the presence of the maid, Peter denied the Lord three times; he lied (Matt. 26:69-75). Did Peter not know that lying was sin? With this in mind, to “sin willfully” must not mean to sin while knowing that such an act is a sin. This can also be proved in an indirect way. Let us read Hebrews 10:26-29: “For when we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three witnesses. By how much do you think he will be thought worthy of worse punishment who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has considered the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

    What is the meaning of “sin willfully” in verse 26? To sin willfully is to commit the three acts spoken of in verse 29: (1) to trample underfoot the Son of God, (2) to consider the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and (3) to insult the Spirit of grace. In summary, this is to reject salvation. Even though a person has heard God’s Word which says that Jesus is the Son of God, he says that Jesus is a bastard. Even though he has heard God’s Word which says that the blood of Jesus was shed for the remission of sins, and that this blood is precious as the blood of the Lamb without blemish, he says that Jesus died as a martyr and that His blood is as common as anyone else’s. Even though he has heard God’s Word which says that the Holy Spirit brings man to repentance and gives eternal life, he says, “I do not believe God will impart the accomplished work of Jesus Christ to me; I do not believe that man can be born again.” For this kind of people, the Bible declares, “There no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins.”

    What is the meaning of “There no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins”? “No longer remains” means it was once available. We have to pay attention to the “no longer.” Let us read the following verses:

    Hebrews 7:27 says, “Who does not have daily need, as the high priests do, to offer up sacrifices first for his own sins and then for those of the people; for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.”

    Hebrews 9:12 says, “And not through the blood of goats and calves but through His own blood, entered once for all into the Holy of Holies, obtaining an eternal redemption.”

    Hebrews 9:25 through 28 says, “Nor in order that He might offer Himself often, just as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies year by year by the blood of other creatures; since then He would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world. But now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested for the putting away of sin through the sacrifice of Himself….So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many.”

    Hebrews 10:2 says, “Otherwise would they not have ceased to be offered, because those worshipping, having once been purified, would have no longer had the consciousness of sins?”

    Hebrews 10:10 through 12 says, “By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands daily, ministering and offering often the same sacrifices, which can never remove sins; but this One, having offered one sacrifice for sins, sat down forever on the right hand of God.”

    After reading these Scriptures we must ask: why did the Lord Jesus offer Himself once and not many times? The book of Hebrews, from chapter seven onward, repeatedly makes a comparison between the sacrifice which the Lord Jesus Christ offered and the sacrifices offered in the Old Testament. The Lord Jesus Christ offered Himself only once and became the eternal sacrifice for sins, while the sacrifices offered in the Old Testament were sacrifices of bulls and goats and offered up year after year. In the Old Testament, when a man first committed a trespass, he had to offer up a sin offering of a bullock, a lamb, two turtle doves, or two young pigeons. If he committed a trespass a second time, he would have to offer up a sin offering as an atoning sacrifice again. If he committed a trespass the third time, he would have to offer up his sin offering again. This was required of every person as an individual. The whole congregation of Israel also had to offer the sin offering year after year on the day of atonement.

    Why were the offerings of the bulls and goats made year after year? It was because the blood of the bulls and goats could never take away man’s sins. One offering had to be made for the trespasses of last year; another offering had to be made for the trespasses of this year. But through the eternal Spirit, Jesus Christ offered Himself to God and became the one sacrifice for sins forever, so that we who are being sanctified are perfected forever.

    Therefore, Hebrews 10 tells us that if there are some who have heard the truth and sin willfully, rejecting the blood of the Son of God, rejecting the Holy Spirit, and despising the Son of God, for them “there no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins.” In the Old Testament, if a person missed the opportunity for atonement one year, he might still have an opportunity the following year. But today if a person rejects Jesus Christ, “there no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins.” The sin offering of the Old Testament is gone and no longer effective. If he knows the truth and still rejects Him, then “there no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins.” “And there is salvation in no other” (Acts 4:12). God has done everything He could do to save us in sending the Lord Jesus Christ to accomplish the work of redemption and to be our Savior; He has done the utmost. He cannot add anything more to His work. Moreover, God has provided the opportunity for man to hear the gospel and know the truth; if a person still rejects these and willfully sins, the Bible tells us that there is no hope for him. His end is nothing but “a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries.”

    The end of those mentioned in Hebrews 6:1-8 is “near a curse.” But the end of those mentioned in Hebrews 10:26-29 is the fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries. It is hard to apply Hebrews 10:26-29 to Christians. This portion of the Word must refer to those who know the gospel but purposely reject it; there is no other salvation for them. Otherwise, why is “no longer” used? Why does it say, “There no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins”? Why is “once” used repeatedly in the previous verses? If we put “no longer” together with “once” in these verses, we will understand the real meaning.

  12. 12. Dan Howell Says:

    I would just like to make a point for all those who think that “if you’ve got it you’ll never lose it (salvation), but if you lose it you never had it”. This is the worst of all doctrines. You can never know that your saved in this case, because how can you know that you won’t ever commit some serious sin down the road and fall away? Therefore you can’t know for sure you’re saved now! How can you have any assurance then?

    If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you can absolutely know for sure your walking with God now! If your a Calvinist at least you falsely believe that you’re saved no matter what, even in your rebellious sin. But with this doctrine I don’t see how there can ever be any assurance real or imagined, especially for those who believe that you can’t live above sin. With this doctrine you have to repeat the sinners prayer continually, and even then you can never know for sure if your saved.

    I thank the Lord that some of us have not swallowed this false gospel knowing that we can “walk in the light as He is in the light”, and “that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin”, not just the act but the power. We can know now whether “we are in the faith”, and we have complete and constant assurance of salvation, as long as we obey Him. “We are only eternally secure if we are eternally faithful.”

    Thank you for your website, since the web is full of it’s calvinist and semi-calvinist teachings, your sight was hard to find, but I’m glad I found it.

    May the Lord bless your efforts to spread truth.

    Dan

  13. 13. bob Says:

    Hi Dan,

    Could you expand on this some more please and provide me with this in article form. I will post it on my blog.

    This is one of the very points that I have brought up. If you believe in P in TULI(P), Perseverance of the Saints, or conservative Eternal Security there is no assurance of salvation.

    Also drop me your phone number at bobmutch@gmail.com .

    Thanks!

    Bob.

  14. 14. Ruth Rossetti Says:

    Thank you for explaining what I was taught going to The Church of the Nazarene as a child. God bless you.

  15. 15. Tanille Says:

    Thank you so much Rebecca for your post, and I wholeheartedly agree.

    It seems that the people asking this question are newly born-again or are unsure of this point, and I remember being in that place, feeling overwhelmed, and hearing alot of what seemed to me at the time to be jargon I didn’t understand. Thankfully, I found an amazing church, and I came to understand this concept through them. I will do my best to explain in everyday terms the way I came to understand salvation and sin.

    “I would hold when a Christian commits a willful sin then they are no longer saved.” This implies that we should be perfect in order to keep our salvation, as all sin is willful (meaning we are given free will and operate in that free will). We know that it is impossible for us to be perfect. When you are born-again and your eyes are opened to the truth, God will convict you of sin. This happens slower for some than others because the Word teaches us that the deeper you have been in darkness, the more deliverance is needed. God calls us to be obedient in repenting of sin, not to try and achieve perfection for we never can, but rather to seek sanctification. We should constantly be growing, and therefore we will constantly be convicted of sin. We are fallen man, our curse is temptation which results in sin. As we are sanctified through conviction and repentance we move closer to being Christ-like, but we will never achieve perfection and be sin free. Rather, we should want to be Christ-like and do as much as we can to become as much like Him as we can. We should never be apathetic or reach a place where we are comfortable and are not growing and changing things in our lives.

    I think Rebecca was spot on when she said that those who have been given the opportunity of hearing the gospel of truth, and choose still to reject it can not be saved, and that the scripture quoted above was not referring to born-again Christians. Remembering of course that some people take years after the seed has been planted to surrender. So my understanding of that scripture is that once the gospel of truth has been heard, those who choose to reject it will not be saved for as long as they continue to reject the truth. Once they accept the truth, they can be saved. So because you once did not believe, does not mean you can never be saved. The minute you believe and acknowledge you are a sinner is the minute you are saved, even if it is years after you have heard the truth. The Word says we need to acknowledge that we are sinners, and that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour, and we will be saved. THAT is the sinners prayer. We cannot, every time we sin, repeat the sinner’s prayer, because we already know and have acknowledged that Jesus is Lord and we are sinners. Sinning does not mean that we do not acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour. It means we are fallen man, God will convict us of that sin and we must repent.

    I do agree that when one has fallen so far into sin that you can no longer hear God’s voice of conviction, then salvation is lost. But the reason is because then we sin and do not repent. If we repent (turn our backs on), then God will forgive us. This is why He sent Jesus to die for our sins: we walk in God’s grace now (New Testament), meaning we are able to pray to God for forgiveness because we have the Holy Spirit living inside us; not in law where the punishment for sin was death (Old Testament). The point of repentance is to turn our backs on a particular sin, because then we come into obedience, and we grow, and we are convicted of new sin and we move closer to sanctification, as we should continue to throughout our lives. If it were true that when we sin we lose our salvation, no one would be saved as Rebeccah said. Also, from the outset, it would seem pointless to be saved if it were so easy to lose salvation as we would never be able to hold up to the standard of never sinning because we are by our very nature sinful. We need to humble ourselves & recognise that and repent; and acknowledge that Christ is Lord. He is in control, not us. Once we do that, the Word says we are saved. From there, God will deal with each of us in whichever way we need dealing with.

    Some real world examples would probably be best to explain my understanding of this. When I was born again, I was convicted of plenty of things on that same day. It was like the flood gates had opened. I had so much to repent for and I did. As time has gone on, I am still convicted of things all the time, that I never saw before. I am like a tree that is pruned and each time I am pruned I grow. That is my understanding of how God works in our lives according to the Word. But now, the things I am convicted of are the smaller things which are harder to see in myself, like exaggeration, as opposed to for example, premarital sex which is obvious.

    In comparison, my soon to be husband has been convicted of a few things only for the moment, things that are clear to me, but not him. But the things he has been convicted of already have been huge things. I know that sin is equal, but bear with me here. He has gone deeper into darkness than I have, so he has more to deal with than I did. In other words I am saying he has gone so deep into the dark world without knowing it and has been so deceived that it is much harder for him to recognise it. To give examples so I hopefully make it clearer, he watched alot of porn. For me that is an obvious no brainer, but I never watched porn before I was born again, so it was never an issue in my life. Also, the curse of Adam passed onto men is lust. Another example is he has always been fascinated with the paranormal, and horror movies etc. He has been deceived into believing it’s interesting, and in most cases just Hollywood entertainment, not an open doorway. I have always avoided that stuff because it always scared me. So I never had to have my eyes opened to that.

    So, if you give your life to God, KNOWING that you are going to continue to practice extramarital sex for example even though you KNOW the Bible explicitly states you should not do so, then either you are not truly wanting to be born-again, or you are hoping for the best of both worlds. Either way, you are not YET saved. This is different to having to be convicted by God of a particular sin you are guilty of because you are blind to it. It’s all about what you know to be true in your heart. What’s important to understand is that God knows our hearts, He knows our true motivations. In anything we say and do we need to examine our motivations, because this is where the key to our convictions and our walk with God lies. If in our hearts we are knowingly acting against God, but we want salvation anyway, God will know that. If in your heart, you love God and you want to do what is honouring to Him but aren’t sure how, pray and God will convict you. Then you will have your eyes opened so you can repent. God knows the difference between the two, we cannot hide from Him, fool Him or convince Him so that we can hear what we want to hear like we do with humans. God does not veer from His word. Few people are likely to admit this, but I know 1 person who is honest in saying they will quickly repent when they know they are going to die because they want to go to Heaven, they believe in God, but they don’t want to give up worldly things. The sad truth is that I think many people think this way, as if God can’t see that. And of course the obvious being they are assuming their death won’t be sudden & they will have time to repent. But if people are truly deceived, and eventually come into obedience and repent, God will honour His promise. The important thing is, He knows the truth behind WHY we have not yet come into obedience and we will be given that opportunity until we do.

    I have physically witnessed people get born again and change everything in their lives almost overnight, I have seen this even in people who have gone very deep into darkness. But I have also seen people be born again who wrestled, and took a long time to be convicted of different sins, and are now warriors for Christ and are doing amazing things for Him.

    The best analogy I have heard from a teaching is the walk in the wilderness or desert to the promised land: an eleven day journey that took forty years. We all have a different walk, and the length of our walk in the wilderness is different for each of us. The important thing is to walk closely with God so that we hear His voice of conviction, to repent once we have been convicted so that we can grow and continue to be convicted and therefore move closer to sanctification & arrive in the promised land (freedom) as quickly as possible for our own sake. I believe too that we can be in denial, and “get stuck” in one place and not grow until we hear a particular conviction and repent for it. This is our walk in the wilderness. We come into the promised land when we live in the freedom of the knowledge that Jesus died for our sins. And we can only do this when we are willing to open our hearts and let God convict us and repent & continue in obedience to Him. The more of our old life we hold onto, or the more we operate in the flesh instead of in the spirit, the more in bondage we are, and the more miserable we will be (walking in the wilderness, not living in the Promised Land). God knows our hearts, and if He knows our heart is for Him, but we continue to struggle with letting go of a sin or certain sins we HAVE ALREADY been convicted of, we will not lose our salvation, but we will not live in freedom, and we will never come into our purpose here on earth. God will not be able to use us to fulfill that purpose because we will wrestle with total surrender, and that will be our daily struggle, we will block God’s blessing this way.

    I hope this helps someone!

  16. 16. Tanille Says:

    PS

    One of the fruits of the Spirit is discernment. The more we repent and seek sanctification, the more fruits of the Spirit we will bear. So it will be easier for us to recognise and discern sin in ourselves, and it will be clearer to us so that we are able to move closer to being more Christ-like more quickly. There will then come a point where once you have born fruit, you will be able to receive your gift or gifts from God and use them to grow God’s Kingdom, although you will still always be convicted of something & repenting of sins.

  17. 17. Anne Stocks Says:

    The Difference…

    Falling into sin…There is a difference from falling into sin and falling away when we sin before we are perfected in Love we can be forgiven, Jesus is our Advocate and we are covered by His blood and so are under God’s grace but if we are continuing to sin we have not come to true heart repentance which is turning away from sin, rejecting evil and seeking to do good by the empowering of the Holy Spirit. It is our evil flesh nature that causes us to sin it pollutes our spirit and our mind, we are to put it to death by the Spirit, Colossians 3:4-6 & 2 Corinthians 7:1 how do we do this by choosing to walk in Love then we are empowered to do so, we cannot do this by pumping up the flesh…as we put to death the flesh, we are perfected in Love, Galatians 5:22-26 and we are to aim, press on, reach forth or follow after, strain toward Philippians 3:12-14 & Romans 8:5 -17 we Trust in God for Him to finish what He started… and then we wait on Him. James 5:7-10

    Falling away ….Falling away means we are rejecting Jesus Christ and His atonement if you reject Jesus what’s left, we are rejected which means we have a hard heart and because we continue to sin we die Spiritually and we will not seek repentance so we can not be brought back to repentance and we did not have Salvation it the first place. Jesus died once if His first sacrifice was not enough to bring us to perfection then we weren’t saved our repentance was not of the heart. We had a knowledge of God, we even had a Spiritual gift and so had been partakers of the Holy Ghost, but we did not show the fruit of Salvation Hebrews 6 :9 King Saul was able to prophesy but eventually sought the Occult for answers ( Satan) even after knowing God and talking to Him personally and as far as we are told he did not repent like King David did, Saul went mad even trying to kill David, who was a man after God’s own heart even though he sinned greatly and great was his repentance as was …. Luke 7:44-48

    Continued next post…

  18. 18. Anne Stocks Says:

    Being Born again and Perfected in Love – 1 John 3:1-11…Do we have the Mind of Christ and if so does Jesus choose to sin? 1 Corinthians 2:15-16, If we are sealed by The Holy Spirit can we be unsealed, if we are Adopted by God does He unadopt us, Ephesians1:1-23 if we have been made spotless and pure Ephesians 5:26-28 and cleansed of all unrighteousness. If we no longer have the evil flesh Nature can we wallow in the mud again. If we have died with Him, can our sinful nature be born again 2 Timothy 2:11 If we are Born again of God’s seed can we be unborn, 1 John 3:9 when God conforms us into the image of His son can we be unconformed. Romans 8:28-30 If we are a Chosen Priesthood a Holy Nation a people belonging to God can we loose our Nationality, If we are seated with God Spiritually can we be evicted. Ephesians 2 If God has made us perfect, established, strengthened and settled us, can all this be taken away 1Peter 5:10

    Does it depend on us or God…He chose us knowing we would repent and He disciplined us and brought us to heart repentance and He conforms us and perfects us in Love.

    It is not God’s will that anyone perish, it is our choice to accept His Awesome gift of Salvation in Christ Jesus, who has set us free from sin. John 8:34-36

    1John 4:16-17 God is Love; and he that dwelleth in Love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our Love made perfect.

    When we are Born again we have God’s seed – 1 John 3:9 … God is Love.

    Jude1:20-25

    Jude1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

  19. 19. Anne Stocks Says:

    To understand God’s Truth we need His wisdom – James 1:4-6 Man in the Flesh or the Natural man cannot understand the things of God, he can only by the Holy Spirit empowering him – 1 Corinthians 2

    1 Corinthians 2: 9-16 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that Love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing piritual things with Spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is Spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? but we have the mind of Christ.

    2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of Prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the Day Star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the Prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    Christian Love Anne.

  20. 20. Anne Stocks Says:

    Reading all Scripture in contex gives a clearer picture such as 1 Corinthians 2:1-16

    We see this very clearly with Romans 8:1 we often hear the first part of this verse but not the rest so we don’t have a clear picture read again what it is confirming.

    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Christian Love Anne.

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