I have only recently become involved with the COGR. I view them, generally, as being sincere serious Christians. I am so sick of half-hearted, lukewarm fellowship, that you typically find in most churches, and my heart was warmed by their zeal and genuine commitment to Christ. I was not in full agreement in several of their views, but I did not regard these issues as anything worth dividing over. I liked very much what I saw, or rather, what I thought I saw–a real-life Christian church, a people who actually live by the Bible! I see godliness, holiness, in them, and I love that which I perceive is lovely.

I was only regarded as a serious prospect, a visitor, but I wanted to be much more, for I thought that I had finally found my home, this side of heaven. My experience of fellowship has been very lacking, and I long to be in a church to love and to be loved, and to live the Christian life with other like-minded believers.

I then began to see elements of what I perceived to be spiritual pride in some of them, and I wondered at its possible source. I then began to study their doctrines, and found the one doctrine that I simply could not abide,–their teaching that they are the only church that is acceptable to God, and that all other churches are spiritual Babylon, an evil empire, from which God commands all Christians to come out of, and join with them. I think this doctrine flies in the face of their doctrine that they should be charitable, because they un-Christianize real Christians, and call that unclean which God has called clean. I could see how this one doctrine must have the effect of dividing churches and causing great harm to the body of Christ. After I realized all this, I wept bitterly, because I very much wanted to join myself to them, for I loved much of what I saw. O, what a fallen world! This Garden of Eden that I found has subtle serpents within it. But I am with you–there is much that is good that is in the COGR. I was once a member of a church that unintentionally promoted licentiousness; that taught that a Christian cannot truly live a holy life; and that taught that holiness (an intention of obedience) is not necessary anyway, because once you are converted, there is no way to become unconverted, and to forfeit your salvation. I would much rather be a member of the COGR than to be a member of a church that teaches doctrines that invite me to partake of sin, for God will judge me by my heart. Please keep in mind that my experience with the COGR is very limited, but I believe that there are a great many that are saved in this church, people with holy hearts and lives (too bad that a judicious judgment does not always coincide with piety). But oh! the devastation that this church has surely caused, and shall continue to cause, due to their false OTVC doctrine, that unintentionally perpetuates self-worship. What scares me most about this church, is that because they are so devout (and they really are, from what I have seen), they make the most perfect deceivers, for they appear as angels of light in a world of darkness. They seem to be perfectly suited to do that which they affirm to be so against:–the dividing of the church, to the end that the world sees the resultant mess and mocks at it, mistakenly thinking that this is true Christianity.
O good God, please, I beg You, be exceedingly merciful and gracious, for the sake of Your Church, and the sake of the lost.–Deliver the COGR from this malignant falsehood that further divides Your church, and makes these deceived ones so uncharitable, judgmental, and hurtful to their brothers and sisters, and which makes Christianity to appear so unattractive to the world!!!

>>>From what I know, I would assert that the Restoration does advocate breaking up marriages in certain situations.

Yes that is correct. If you are in what they feel like is an unscriptural marriage that would advocate getting out of it.

I would hold that same position.

Thanks!

Bob.

>>>So are you still married since you were asked to leave the restoration?

Yes.

>>>is that a “allowable” excuse to divorce?

No, there is no excuse among the Restoration for divorce and I would agree with this position.

>>>I’ve heard that if a spouse is asked to leave then divorce is encouraged.

No that is a falsehood. There is no account of a Restoration member in good standing ever divorcing their spouse.

Thanks!

Bob.

I think Christians that dress modestly will stick out like a sore thumb and especially in the summer time. For the most part I agree with the R’s dress standard. The only areas that I have changed in is I don’t wear the black vest, don’t wear only back and white clothes to meeting, when I am running (I run a half marathon from time to time) I wear a long-sleeve running shirt without a t-shirt underneath, and I put my baseball hat on backward from time to time.

The R teaches the black vest for distinction sake and I disagree with that. But having said that I agree that it is good for the the sisters to wear a vest so their figure is not accentuated and I found when I wore a vest I didn’t have problems with my shirt having to be tucked in from time to time.

I think the R wears the no-collar-suit for distinction sake not for modesty sake. As far as the 1700, I think over all they dressed more conservative back then then they do now. So if you are going to dress modest you are going to look old fashion and I don’t have a problem with that.

Overall the R has many good points and some bad points. I agree they are divisional and sectarian and I have found them to be loose with the truth. But you know Ben I don’t regret having been part of them. I learned many good things from them!

Thanks!

Bob.

I attend as a visitor a Charity congregation here in Vienna, Ontario. It is the best that I can find.

If the Restoration is wrong who is right? Any congregation or group of congregations that teaches holiness in life and is not bigoted and sectarian.

How to you find a congregation that is right — pray and look.

My reason for putting this information out is three fold. To clear up a lot of the misinformation about the Restoration, to give people a heads up who are thinking of joining the Restoration, and to influence the Restoration ministry to make changes.

Please point out to me where I have stated I would still attend the R if they would let me. That is not my position. Perhaps when I was put out or shortly afterward that was my position but certianly not now. I consider the Restoration for the most part to be bigoted and sectarian-spirited. I am done with them and they are done with me.

Of course I wouldn’t recommend someone to join the Restoration. Why — to long a list to post here. Would I recommend people to leave. If they can see through the system yes of course. But only if they are clear in their mind that the Restoration is unscriptural and have found somewhere else to do.

I am not careful with my word as far as worrying about getting excommunicated. While I don’t seek excommunicated I am not worried about being excommunicated.

So, would you recommend someone join this group? Why or why not?

What would you recommend to those that are in there? To stay or go? Why or why not?

I’m aware you need to be very careful with your words so you will not be excommunicated, but we are trying to understand where you’re coming from here.

Here is a list of the things that drew me to the Church of God Guthie, OK group.

1. Free-from-sin teaching (committed and inherited).
2. Strong emphasis on growing in grace and increasing in the fruit of the Spirit.
3. Burden for not only the lost but to help our Christian brothers and sisters that are under false doctrine or weak in the faith.
4. Strong teaching in modesty in dress.
5. Emphasis on practical Christianity versus an emphasis of intellectual dogma that doesn’t really have a practical side to it.
6. The desire for unity and purity in doctrine.
7. Strong fellowship between believers in the local congregation and between the associated congregations.

The first 5 have remained the cord of what I hold dear today. Unity in doctrine is very difficult to get without starting a sect and enforcing your written or unwritten statement of doctrine.

As far as the Restoration group there was not really any changed in the congregation I attended when it left the Church of God Guthie, OK conference and became part of the Church of God Restoration conference. The changes came slowly as Danny Layne assumed a pope like position with the Restoration, and under Layne’s leadership the congregations became more intolerance of any dissenting views and started to macro mange the members lives.

Layne’s pope like position was strongly increased after Ron Walter from the Chilliwack, BC congregation left the Restoration movement in 2001. It was at this time that Layne was held to be an Apostle and became the leading minister in the Restoration without any rival.

I remember when Danny Layne preached his 1980 7th trumpet message at Charis campground in Chilliwack, BC. This system was a repackaged version of W. S. Goodnight’s message which is referred to as the 7th seal message. Layne told us he was just putting it out for consideration and we could take or leave it. What a different story it is now where the Layne and the Restoration ministry will disfellowship long term members that disagree with their 7th Trumpet message.

As far as the Restoration group being a cult I am very clear that they are not. There are lots of denominations that use peer pressure and spiritual abuse to get there members to obey the written or unwritten rules. They would be better called a Christian sect but not a Christian cult. The term Christian cults should be reserved for groups like Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple, David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, and other groups like them.

I am familiar with the characteristics of a cult and personally I think those characteristics match to a good degree New Testament Christianity almost as much as any current OTVC group.

As far as salvation being liberating and not confining I agree. Salvation liberates us from sin but not from the dos and don’t of the New Testament. Christians are not lawless or without rules. Even McDonalds has rules — no shirt, no shoes, no service.

The problem with some OTVC (one true visible church) groups is that if you won’t keep rules they will ban, disfellowship, excommunicate, and condemn you to hell. That kind of conduct is anti-Christ and sinful in my opinion.

If they want to remove your rights as a member from their no-sect sect that is one thing. But to unsave you and influence others to not accept you as a Christian because you will not consider them the one true visible church and all others church groups to be of the devil, is bigoted and sectarian.

You are not going to hear me mentioned in the circles of the Faith and Victory group because I am not an important person. I am just another peon of little importance in the big scheme of things.

Over all my experience with F&V was better than with the R but they both hold to the sect OTVC (one true visible church) teaching that tends to cause people to be sectarian and bigoted.

Also it is my experience that there is a culture of deceit in the R. The leadership of the R seems to be willing to push over the line of what is truth when it comes to getting members by doctrine hiding and also in keeping out of trouble with the law concerning their non-medical teaching and the deaths it has caused.

I would be interested to know what drew you to the Faith and Victory group, and why I haven’t heard mention of you in their circles? I attended one of their churches as a teenager, and visited many camp meetings. I would have to say that the teachings I sat under are still with me today, but reflecting on the experiences leaves a lot to be desired.